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Task Killers... The Answer from Google & Developers

This is a discussion on Task Killers... The Answer from Google & Developers within the Motorola Xoom Apps forums, part of the Motorola Xoom Forum category; Originally Posted by ajshaikh I absolutely agree with Cmmsh. Inactive apps should not be running in the background whether it uses battery life or not. ...

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Thread: Task Killers... The Answer from Google & Developers

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajshaikh View Post
    I absolutely agree with Cmmsh. Inactive apps should not be running in the background whether it uses battery life or not. Once closed must be closed. That's really what making Apple iOS strong operating system; one application at a time.

    I think developers shall develop a tweak to completely kill the app when it is closed by the users.
    Welcome to the forum.Glad you joined us.



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  3. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajshaikh View Post
    I absolutely agree with Cmmsh. Inactive apps should not be running in the background whether it uses battery life or not. Once closed must be closed. That's really what making Apple iOS strong operating system; one application at a time.

    I think developers shall develop a tweak to completely kill the app when it is closed by the users.
    Your thoughts regarding iOS are incorrect. It behaves the same way, just less visible. There is no 'built-in' process viewer, however if you JB your iOS device and install a process viewer you will see the same type of activity. It appears that many people who are fearful of the way the information is presented do not understand what caching is.

    http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=howstuffworks+caching
    Last edited by RDA3440; 08-15-2011 at 10:32 AM. Reason: spelling, url correction
    MZ604 Stone Stock.

  4. #13
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    on the xoom we have an option to stop apps are we not to do so?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cmmsh View Post
    I don't care what anyone says. I simply don't want apps running that don't need to be running, whether they use battery life or not. And of course Google and developers are going to tell me it's OK to leave THEIR apps running in the background on my device. Sorry, I don't trust you. ... It's simple: If it doesn't need to be running, then it's getting stopped. Even if I have to do it 30 times a day.
    What is it about "their" apps do you not trust? Is that worth draining the snot out of your battery?

    An application that is inactive is using no battery, it's just sitting there in memory. This requires no additional power from the battery to sit idle.
    When you go kill it that requires CPU time to shut down the process, which does consume battery.

    To each their own, but I'm in favor of saving as many power cycles as possible to ensure I get the best possible life out of my battery.

  7. #16
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    /rant on
    Well I wanted to chime in on this discussion. Yes I have listened to the "google" explanation not needing to "kill" apps. And of course devs don't want you to kill their wares either. Well as a user who obviously ROOTED my device, I can make an informed decision. I don't share the false reasoning behind why it's HARMFUL to kill/stop apps. If I NEVER started an app (either fresh from a box new or downloaded/installed) it SHOULD never AUTORUN, EVER! There is absolutely NO reason for a non-system (third party) app to run in such a manner. As for my PERSONAL experience, I can affirm that after a while of opening many apps, a phone or even my Xoom slow down considerably. (I can either run CF bench if I really want a number, or I can restart and observe the considerably faster running device.) I have been consulted 9-10 times by ppl running Android 2.x asking why is my device so slow? Although my recommendation of restarting seems simple, these devices should NOT have to restarted daily. Further, once I installed a TK, THE same ppl remarked how much faster it was WITHOUT a restart.

    As for Android managing RAM and apps and resources...I'm not drinking the punch! Sorry, but if I decide to STOP something, it should stay that way UNTIL I say otherwise. If as the end user, I want to accept the additional SECONDS to start something, I will. I will NOT however accept being told..."it's ok all 20 or so of these apps are running silently..." I can manage it for you. Hmm NO thanks android. Every app should have an EXIT option from the main interface. Exit as in KILL or stop. Not hide, not toss in background, not smoke and mirrors. I can't believe all of the responses here and on other forums from otherwise intelligent ppl that root, mod, etc. devices but accept being told it's ok if this stuff runs I will handle it for you. lol No it's NOT ok if it runs.
    Frankly the explanation of it takes MORE battery to load said app does NOT outweigh the potential for silent monitoring/phoning home/slowing down a device. Period
    /rant off
    Last edited by robwhitey; 09-10-2011 at 09:44 PM.

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    Because A the intelligent people are often programmers if it made sense to kill apps why would they lie? What is in it for them to stop people from using task killers? B my experience I notice no difference. So some people believe what they like..... go for it.

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    This is from Koush, the dev of CWM Recovery.




    koushkoush





    At the CM BBQ panel/talk, I decided to write an app that kills task killers. Task Killer Killer. Hopefully I'll finish it during my flight.



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  10. #19
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    The following is not a perfect analogy, but it should get the point across:

    Think of your device's RAM as a table. Think of the apps as papers. Think of the storage where your apps are stored as a neatly organized filing cabinet.

    1) You can have a ton of papers in the filing cabinet next to your table.
    2) In order to read a paper, you first gotta go into the drawers and find it, then put it on the table. This takes time and energy and is slow.
    3) When a paper is on the table, you can read it immediately. This is much faster than digging it out of the filing cabinet.
    4) You can have only a limited number of papers on your table. So you'll have to manage which papers are on the table and which are in the filing cabinet.
    5) You can follow some rules about which papers to keep around on the table: Things you need to read often you probably want to keep on the table for quick access. Some small papers can also be kept around. The smarter the rules, the less time you spent digging in your filing cabinet.

    Because of #3, it makes sense to keep as many papers on your table as possible. Empty space on your table is wasted space. It's not doing you any good. But obviously you want to be smart about which papers you have on the table. And that's where #5 comes in. That's what Android does for you: It tries to optimize which papers should be on your table at any given point in time. It tries to fill your table with the right papers so that you can quickly get the paper you need. Android also puts papers away as more RAM (table space) is needed by some application, like a big game for example. And when space becomes available, Android may go ahead and pull out some oft used papers and store them on the table so they're ready for you.

    If you use a task killer, it's like putting all the pieces of paper back into the filing cabinet each time. Sure, you cleared up some space on the table. But what good does that do you? You cannot use that RAM for anything anyway. And worse: because of the way Android works, right after you kill the app, Android may turn right back around and pull the piece of paper out of the filing cabinet again because it thinks it makes sense to put it on the table. Your task killer may then put it back in the filing cabinet. And back and forth it goes. That consumes power, which may adversely affect your battery life. So don't use task killers to keep your table clean!

  11. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valorum View Post
    The following is not a perfect analogy, but it should get the point across:

    Think of your device's RAM as a table. Think of the apps as papers. Think of the storage where your apps are stored as a neatly organized filing cabinet.

    1) You can have a ton of papers in the filing cabinet next to your table.
    2) In order to read a paper, you first gotta go into the drawers and find it, then put it on the table. This takes time and energy and is slow.
    3) When a paper is on the table, you can read it immediately. This is much faster than digging it out of the filing cabinet.
    4) You can have only a limited number of papers on your table. So you'll have to manage which papers are on the table and which are in the filing cabinet.
    5) You can follow some rules about which papers to keep around on the table: Things you need to read often you probably want to keep on the table for quick access. Some small papers can also be kept around. The smarter the rules, the less time you spent digging in your filing cabinet.

    Because of #3, it makes sense to keep as many papers on your table as possible. Empty space on your table is wasted space. It's not doing you any good. But obviously you want to be smart about which papers you have on the table. And that's where #5 comes in. That's what Android does for you: It tries to optimize which papers should be on your table at any given point in time. It tries to fill your table with the right papers so that you can quickly get the paper you need. Android also puts papers away as more RAM (table space) is needed by some application, like a big game for example. And when space becomes available, Android may go ahead and pull out some oft used papers and store them on the table so they're ready for you.

    If you use a task killer, it's like putting all the pieces of paper back into the filing cabinet each time. Sure, you cleared up some space on the table. But what good does that do you? You cannot use that RAM for anything anyway. And worse: because of the way Android works, right after you kill the app, Android may turn right back around and pull the piece of paper out of the filing cabinet again because it thinks it makes sense to put it on the table. Your task killer may then put it back in the filing cabinet. And back and forth it goes. That consumes power, which may adversely affect your battery life. So don't use task killers to keep your table clean!
    Good analogy, but here are a few additional thoughts..


    1) You can have a ton of papers on the table for reading. Having them grouped in stacks, in an ordered manner -- makes your reading experience faster. If your papers are spread all over the table.. it can slow down the reading experience. This (spreading of your papers about), as the OS may have to have cleared space in different areas for you.
    2) If the table has clear space, your explanation is true. If the table is already filled up -- the OS (Android) has to make room for things. It will stop, and clear off space on the table for you. Some argue, this is equally slow, and inefficient - as the user can experience a notable slowness to application launching.
    3) Definitely faster to have the paper ready to read / go.
    4) In Android… the OS manages the clearing of the table for you (and for developers). In fact, programmers are discouraged from touching the 'clearing of the table'. Task killers can honk up the works, if a user clears up a process which is in use by another app. It is often difficult to tell which bits of which process, are being consumed by another program. Killing a process which is being used - can gum up the works. (it would be like, taking a few pages from one of your papers, while you are still reading. You ruined one of the paper on your table, by accidentally taking a few pages (inadvertently) from another stack.
    5) To point #4 -- all the smarts about memory management are up to Android to manage. Programmers are discouraged from touching thing, as are users.


    Because of #2… there is often a churning, when users fire up their applications. Android has to check if there is room on the table. If there is not enough room for an app - Android has to determine, of the existing papers on the table, which ones can be put away.. and if put away, is there enough room for your new papers. This can be slow and inefficient.




    iOS was brought up. Programming wise -- when you code an application for the Apple operating system, you destroy objects you use. The OS has no built in "garbage collection" mechanism. Apple checks application code which is submitted to them for iTunes distribution, looking for these memory leaks. Developers have tools (an Analyze utility for one) to help them look for spots where they may have forgotten to clean things up. In the Java/Android world, developers have to rely on the OS to clean up objects which are unused.


    It is Apples (iOS) and Orange (Android) to compare apps at the code level, since the OS forces a different paradigm onto the programer.


 
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